How to start a mental health marketplace
Andrii: Hi everyone, and welcome to the third episode of our podcast dedicated to NoCode enthusiasts and startup founders. I’m Andrii, your usual host, and today, as always, we have Roman with us. Plus, we’re thrilled to welcome a special guest, our friend and distinguished founder, Dima Kovalenko.
Dima: Hey guys, thanks for the kind introduction. Glad to be here.
Andrii: Thanks for joining us today. We’re excited to hear about your journey in building a fantastic startup, which we’ll dive into shortly. But before that, can you tell us a bit about yourself? How do you usually spend your weekends?
Dima: Oh, that’s a tough one. With two companies on my plate, I don’t have much free time. But I try to stay active—doing sports on the weekends, windsurfing, stuff like that.
Andrii: That’s awesome. I remember we went wakeboarding together too.
Dima: Yeah, you actually introduced me to it, so thanks for that.
Andrii: Anytime! So, as you all can probably tell, Dima and I are good friends, business partners in a few ventures, but today, we’re focusing on your latest project—Rozmova, also known as Clearly. How did you come up with it? What’s the difference between Rozmova and Clearly, and what makes your platform stand out?
Dima: Sure! Clearly is a mental health platform that connects clients with therapists, including psychotherapists, and integrates AI to redefine therapy. We started this about two and a half years ago because both my co-founder and I were in therapy and noticed how hard it was to find the right therapist. We realized that this wasn’t just our issue; many friends had similar struggles. There weren’t any modern platforms, just outdated therapist listings.
Andrii: So this was initially aimed at the Ukrainian market?
Dima: Yes, we launched Rozmova specifically for Ukraine. Rozmova means “conversation” in Ukrainian, which felt like a perfect fit for a mental health platform. As we expanded internationally, we rebranded to Clearly.
Andrii: So you’re already scaling beyond Ukraine! Where are you operating now?
Dima: We’re currently active in Ukraine, Spain, and Poland.
Andrii: That’s amazing traction! I can personally relate—I couldn’t find a good therapist until Rozmova launched. It made the whole process of finding a match so much easier.
Roman: Same here. The onboarding process where you select your issues was really intuitive and the matching system is spot on.
Dima: Thanks, glad to hear that!
Roman: What motivated you to go from planning to actually building this platform?
Dima: I’ve always wanted to create a successful business with a meaningful impact, and Clearly fit that vision. We began by researching competitors and interviewing potential users. We quickly saw that this idea had promise, but we didn’t have a large budget, so we aimed for a lean approach to test the concept.
Initial budget
Andrii: Speaking of budget, if it’s not a secret, what was your initial investment?
Dima: We started with about $50,000 from our savings, which we used for product development, marketing, and initial operations. About half of that went towards building the first product version.
Andrii: That’s pretty lean! You mentioned this idea came from your own pain point, but validating that it’s a broader issue is crucial. How did you confirm that others shared this need?
Dima: Great point! We validated the concept with users first. We ran a survey with about 100-200 responses and spoke directly with 20 users and 10 therapists over a month.
Andrii: Did you manage to get users to pay before the product was fully built?
Dima: Unfortunately, no. We weren’t able to pre-sell, but our initial version was lean enough to start generating revenue early on.
Tech stack
Roman: With a limited budget, how did you decide which tools to use for development?
Dima: We focused on creating the core features that users found most valuable based on our interviews. With my engineering background, I had a good sense of what it would take, but after talking to you guys, I decided to explore no-code tools. We went with Bubble, Make, and Airtable, which allowed us to get the initial product up and running quickly.
Andrii: How long did it take to launch using Bubble?
Dima: From design to testing and launch, it took us about two months. The actual development time was around one month.
Andrii: How did the launch go? Was it a big event?
Dima: It wasn’t a big fanfare, but I remember those first users signing up, making payments—it felt great. We had a few bugs, but our mobile developer was on standby to fix things quickly.
Andrii: First users are like your first love—you never forget them.
Dima: Absolutely. I still remember their names!
Roman: What did your team look like at the time? How did you organize the process?
Dima: We started small—just the two co-founders, a product manager, a psychotherapist, and a head of marketing. We also had a contracted mobile developer. With this lean team, we managed to achieve around $50,000 in sales.
Andrii: Where did you find your contractor developers?
Dima: Well, some of the team members, including you guys, helped us out.
Andrii: Right, just to clarify, some of the contractors who helped build Rozmova were from our network. Full disclosure! And when you mention GMV, what exactly does that mean?
Dima: GMV stands for Gross Merchandise Value—it’s the total amount clients pay for therapy sessions on our platform, from which we take a percentage.
Andrii: Got it. So, most of that goes to the therapists, right?
Dima: Exactly. Clients pay for their sessions, we take a small percentage, and the majority of the payment goes to the therapists. It’s a pretty standard marketplace model.
Andrii: Sounds like a typical marketplace setup. So, what was the initial scope of your launch? Which features were included, and what was the most popular feature among users?
Dima: From our user interviews, we learned that the matching process and detailed therapist profiles, including video intros, were highly valued. So, we focused on those. The initial feature set was pretty basic: a landing page, a quick form to capture user preferences, a results page displaying therapist profiles with videos, and a checkout page. That was it. No user registration or therapist profiles initially—therapists had to fill out a form, and we manually entered their info into the database. We managed to operate like that for nearly a year, and it worked.
Andrii: That’s impressive! So how much revenue did you generate by the end of that first year?
Dima: Using Bubble, we went from zero to $150,000 in total sales.
Andrii: That’s amazing, especially considering your lean approach. It’s a great example of starting small—focusing on essential features and staying flexible. Like Dima said, you don’t need to build the next Facebook right away. Start lean, do things manually when necessary, iterate based on real feedback, and grow from there.
Dima: Exactly. We knew we had to iterate quickly, so Bubble was perfect for that. It allowed us to test and refine our features without getting bogged down in lengthy development cycles. For example, we once needed a gift card feature for the holiday season, and we realized this just days before Christmas. We were able to build and launch that feature in just two days.
Andrii: That’s the beauty of NoCode—it’s so flexible. You can launch new features in a matter of hours or days, not weeks.
Dima: Absolutely. That gift card feature is still running on Bubble because we haven’t had the time to rebuild it in code yet. It’s been working fine, so why change it?
Roman: So you eventually moved away from Bubble. What led to that decision, and what stack did you transition to?
Dima: After about a year and a half, we started discussing migrating to custom code. There were a few reasons—some technical requirements that Bubble couldn’t handle well and the need for complex translations as we expanded internationally. Managing translations for dynamic and static content in multiple languages was challenging in Bubble, even though it was technically possible.
Roman: So it wasn’t that Bubble couldn’t support those features; it just wasn’t the optimal solution for your specific needs?
Dima: Exactly. It was possible, but not ideal, especially for SEO and scaling requirements. While we love NoCode and Bubble, there are still some niche cases where custom code works better.
Andrii: Were there any other blockers or limitations beyond SEO and localization?
Dima: Not really, no major security or flexibility issues. It was more about anticipating future scaling needs as we grew.
Andrii: So, you received funding and then made the shift to native code, right?
Dima: Yes, once we secured funding, we decided to invest part of it into migrating certain components to native code. But we still maintain a lot of NoCode elements, like admin panels and automations, which run on tools like Make.com.
Roman: Which NoCode tools are you still using?
Dima: We still use Make.com for a lot of our automation needs, reminders, and data processing. Even though we pitch ourselves as fully coded to investors, there’s still a lot of NoCode under the hood.
Andrii: So you’re still secretly using some NoCode tools, right?
Dima: Absolutely, we’re making the best of both worlds. The client-facing platform and all web panels are built with code, but our internal tools rely heavily on NoCode.
Andrii: That’s a smart move. As an experienced founder, you’ve nailed the strategy—using what’s best for your product, rather than just following market trends. You started with NoCode tools like Bubble and Webflow, and then migrated to code. Do you regret any of those decisions or the migrations?
Dima: Not at all. There’s definitely a bias, especially among investors, who often ask about your tech stack and whether you have an in-house tech team. Initially, some were hesitant about our NoCode approach, but we focused on our traction, real users, and actual revenue, which ultimately proved more convincing than our tech stack. Only after securing investment did we decide to migrate certain features to code.
Andrii: What was the initial investment you received?
Dima: We secured a pre-seed round of $200,000, and we used about 30-40% of that to rebuild parts of the product.
Andrii: That’s a great point—founders should focus less on the tech stack and more on the actual metrics: scaling, users, revenue, or whichever metrics matter most for their startup. That will ultimately drive success, regardless of whether you’re using code or NoCode.
Dima: Exactly. I wouldn’t change a thing about our approach. We made the right decisions at each stage, thanks in part to you guys. We started with a lean version on Bubble, then moved to Webflow when we hit certain limitations. Even now, after migrating some parts to code, we’re still leveraging NoCode tools for new initiatives.
Mobile apps
Andrii: And now you’re moving toward mobile apps, right? How are you handling that transition?
Dima: Yes, we need to build four mobile apps—two each for clients and therapists on iOS and Android. Instead of developing everything natively, which would cost around half a million dollars, we used your advice to wrap our existing web applications into mobile apps, saving us a significant amount of money.
Roman: So you used Natively for that, right?
Dima: Yes, Natively allowed us to wrap our web app into native code and launch it on the App Store and Google Play. It was way more cost-effective than building native apps from scratch.
Andrii: Since we don’t have sponsors yet, let’s plug Natively—convert your website into a mobile native app for a fraction of the cost!
Roman: Exactly! Natively started from the need to make mobile app development more accessible. If you already have a website, Natively can wrap it into a native app while supporting features like push notifications, in-app purchases, and geolocation—making it a great way to enter the mobile world on a budget.
AI implementation
Andrii: Now let’s talk about AI. Do you have AI features in your product, or are you planning to add some?
Dima: Yes, AI is on our roadmap. As we expanded, we realized that while psychotherapy is effective, it’s not always accessible due to cost and availability. We’re developing AI features to enhance the therapy experience between sessions—like small therapy sessions with a bot to track mood and gather information, making therapy more accessible and enhancing the overall experience.
Roman: So users will be able to interact with the bot between their sessions, right? It’s not a substitute for therapy but rather an enhancement?
Dima: Exactly. Users can express their thoughts and feelings to the bot, and this data will be passed on to their therapist, making sessions more effective.
Andrii: Just to clarify, is this approach compliant with legal standards?
Dima: Yes, it’s fully GDPR and HIPAA compliant, but let’s keep that detail under wraps for now!
Roman: Any new lean approaches you’re considering or already implementing?
Dima: Lean thinking is integral to our process. We’re continuously building simple solutions, testing them, and iterating based on feedback. The latest GenAI foundational models are good enough to test ideas quickly without a heavy initial investment, even if they’re not ready for full public release.
Go-to-market strategy
Andrii: We’ve covered your initial idea, development, launch, and investment. Let’s talk about your marketing strategy. How did you approach the market, and how has your strategy evolved?
Dima: In Ukraine, we didn’t have a well-defined go-to-market strategy initially. We launched just a week before the war started, and while it wasn’t planned, the timing meant a surge in demand for online therapy. We ran both paid and unpaid campaigns, leveraging search engines and influencers to gain early traction.
In other markets, we’ve refined our approach. We usually start with about 30 therapists and launch performance campaigns, like Google PPC and Meta ads. After 10 weeks, we assess the market’s viability and decide whether to scale further based on acquisition costs and other metrics. Each market requires a tailored approach.
Andrii: It sounds like you’ve developed a flywheel for entering new markets—test, measure, and decide based on key metrics. Can you share any guidance on customer acquisition costs and LTV for different markets like Ukraine?
Dima: In Ukraine, our LTV to customer acquisition cost ratio is around 2.5 to 1, which is close to ideal. However, this ratio doesn’t scale perfectly—when we ramp up our performance campaigns, it can quickly drop to a 1 to 1 ratio. As for new markets, the numbers vary significantly from one country to another. Since we operate as a mental health marketplace, every market launch is a fresh start, which is why we designed our go-to-market strategy to be agile. We aim to test each market within 10 weeks, evaluating its potential before fully committing.
Andrii: Before entering a new market, what factors do you consider? Are there any red or green flags that influence your decision?
Dima: We look at how mental health is generally supported in each country. If the government heavily subsidizes or provides extensive mental health support, it usually means there’s less opportunity for us to add value. Conversely, if the healthcare system has gaps, especially in mental health, then there’s a clear demand we can meet. We target markets where there’s demand, minimal government coverage, and less competition.
Andrii: So, in a way, you’re filling a gap that the government isn’t addressing.
Dima: Exactly—doing the work that some health systems can’t fully cover.
Andrii: Quite modest of you! But seriously, that’s impactful work.
Roman: Your journey sounds impressive, but what were some of the major challenges you faced? Were there any particular moments that kept you up at night, like onboarding therapists or supporting users?
Dima: Honestly, it’s been challenging all around. One major hurdle was understanding the different needs of users in each market. What worked in Ukraine didn’t necessarily work in Poland, for example. The product needed tweaks to align with local expectations, and it was a learning curve figuring that out.
Challenges of new markets
Roman: What were some of the other challenges you faced during this expansion?
Dima: One of the toughest moments was launching in Poland. We didn’t achieve the results we were hoping for—our acquisition costs were high, and the LTV was lower than expected. We discovered that Polish users expected a broader feature set than what we had developed for Ukraine. They wanted a more robust platform experience, including a downloadable app. Adapting to these expectations required significant changes on our end.
Another major challenge was onboarding therapists. As our growth accelerated, so did the demand for more therapists on the platform. Managing this process initially with Typeform quickly became unsustainable, and we had to automate and scale our onboarding systems in a rush.
Roman: That sounds like a lot of pressure! And with so much personal data involved, how do you ensure everything stays secure, especially given that you started with a NoCode stack?
Dima: We’ve been conscious of security from day one. We’re GDPR compliant and designed the system to avoid storing personal health information directly on our platform. Even with NoCode, you can build secure, compliant solutions if you plan properly. Tools like Bubble are GDPR compliant, and with the right setup, you can meet stringent requirements.
Andrii: So you were compliant from the start, even without storing personal health data. And just to clarify, it’s possible to achieve HIPAA compliance too, even with platforms like Bubble or Webflow, though it does require expertise.
Dima: Yes, it’s definitely doable with the right team that understands the compliance landscape, although we haven’t needed to go that route yet.
Next steps
Andrii: You mentioned earlier about your funding rounds. You closed a $200K pre-seed round, and I understand you’re currently raising more. What are investors asking you now, and what are your plans moving forward?
Dima: We’re in the process of raising an $800,000 seed round, which is going well—we’ve already secured part of the funding. These funds will help us expand further into Spain and Poland, and also support the development of our AI features that we’ve planned.
Andrii: If anyone listening is interested in investing in Rozmova or knows investors who might be, please reach out to Dima directly or through the contact information provided. It’s a great opportunity to be part of a mission-driven team improving mental health access worldwide.
Dima: We’re excited about our direction. We’re already profitable in our key markets, and this investment will help us accelerate our growth. We’re operationally profitable in Ukraine, Spain, and Poland, and the funding will enable us to expand even faster.
Andrii: That’s fantastic to hear. Is there anything else you’d like to share with our listeners?
Dima: Just a reminder that starting with NoCode can be a great way to test your product without a huge initial investment. Thanks to you guys for suggesting this path—it’s been instrumental in our journey, and I’m grateful for all the support you’ve provided.
Andrii: Thank you, Dima, for joining us today. It’s been a pleasure to hear about your journey, the challenges you’ve overcome, and the smart decisions you’ve made along the way. I hope our listeners have gained valuable insights from your story.
Stay tuned for our next episode, where we’ll continue to bring more stories from successful founders who are building impactful products. Take care, and we’ll see you soon.
Cheers to NoCoders!
